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I personally can't give you a lot of help other than to put you at the top of the list so to speak. I have seen other posts on the DT446E here. Some one that knows this engine will come along...there are LOTS of people on this site and the one you are waiting for might not be looking at the moment. Have you used the "search" function with "DT446E"

 

i don't know much about 466's. I work on 2stroke emd and detroit diesels, but I think basic diesel engine knowledge would tell us boost loss is either one of two things.

1. exhaust or boost piping leaks. check for black soot anywhere near the exhaust piping up to the turbo, I would think you could hear the ticking tho. try your best to find air leaks on the pressure side of the turbo. With someone revving the engine, you should be able to feel any air losses, and possibly hear the whistle of excaping air.

2. Not enough fuel. Without the amount of fuel, you cannot make boost. I don't know how you can check the injectors on that engine without pulling them. On 2strokes I'd check the individual exhaust manifolds with an Infrared gun. Comparing temperatures will tell you if injectors or valves are not set properly/misfiring. dt466's have injection pumps too yes? I don't know how you could test it without pulling it.

I would figure on fueling issues, if it was just air, I would think you'd notice the increased cloud of smoke.

 

OTHER THOUGHTS: I'm not a mechanic so I really am guessing below:
This 3 lbs boost seems to be the key.
Could it be other exhaust valves not sealing.
Does this model turbo have a waste gate. I'm told no. If not then what controls the turbo speed and pressure? Maybe that is the problem.
I notice that sometimes when I have a lot of power, but not all the power, my transmission temp gauge is elevated. I have noticed the temp gauger is sometimes sporadic and often in the winter sits at 100 degrees.
Maybe Computers not talking. Local International shop seems to have a problem checking all 3 computers. What about installing a wiring harness for a single computer from a 3 computer system?
Lastly injectors? But what would they have to do with low boost.
Help please!

I'm no expert but here is a thought. On early 2000 model intl in line sixes there was a TSB regarding faulty variable vanes actuating mechanisms in the turbo. I was involved with a truck that intermittently would not pull the hat off your head. Diagnostics showed nothing and thee first trip to the dealer was useless. I communicated directly with intl who sent me a copy of the TBS and called the dealer and instructed them to replace the turbo without further ado. It worked. whether it goes back to 98 models I can't say and I would never find the TSB in a million years but there was a simple test that you could do visually that was indicative of the problem. It had to do with how far the actuator rod moved when the ignition was turned on. That's all I remember. Hope this is helpful.

 

Some models might have a waistegate. Just check on the backside of the turbo. It will look like a soda can with an adjustable rod coming out of it. See if you can move the lever with a pair of pliers. It may be frozen. Or the diaphragm in the waistegate acuator maybe blown out. You can test that by using regulated compressed air at about 30 psi. and blowing it into the small blue hose that comes off the front of the turbo. This would check the whole operation of the waistegate if equipped.

Other things to check...

Try swapping boost sensors with a good one. Its located on the valve cover by the hose going into the engine on top. I've had some of those get stuck with a low reading causing those symptoms. It seems like they can be tempermental.

Check the fuel pressure. There is a screen in front of the secondary filter that some people don't know about. Its right of the hand priming pump when looking at the engine from the drivers side. Just unscrew the housing and clean the filter. It looks very similar to an air pressure regulator.

Basically if you can't build sufficient boost with that engine from the get go the ECM seems to limit the fuel until sufficient boost is availible.

Injectors....I would think you would be able to make more than 3lbs still. Unless one is starving the others of oil. You would need to have them tested or perform a cylinder test while running.


As far as the shops not being able to communicate with the engine. It sounds like a data link failure. You can't really go from a 3 box to a one box system. If the computers aren't talking to each other it could cause low power. As any needed info would be missing. However I would imagine you would have check trans lights and check engine lights as well.

 

Some models might have a waistegate. Just check on the backside of the turbo. It will look like a soda can with an adjustable rod coming out of it. See if you can move the lever with a pair of pliers. It may be frozen. Or the diaphragm in the waistegate acuator maybe blown out. You can test that by using regulated compressed air at about 30 psi. and blowing it into the small blue hose that comes off the front of the turbo. This would check the whole operation of the waistegate if equipped.

Other things to check...

Try swapping boost sensors with a good one. Its located on the valve cover by the hose going into the engine on top. I've had some of those get stuck with a low reading causing those symptoms. It seems like they can be tempermental.

Check the fuel pressure. There is a screen in front of the secondary filter that some people don't know about. Its right of the hand priming pump when looking at the engine from the drivers side. Just unscrew the housing and clean the filter. It looks very similar to an air pressure regulator.

Basically if you can't build sufficient boost with that engine from the get go the ECM seems to limit the fuel until sufficient boost is availible.

Injectors....I would think you would be able to make more than 3lbs still. Unless one is starving the others of oil. You would need to have them tested or perform a cylinder test while running.


As far as the shops not being able to communicate with the engine. It sounds like a data link failure. You can't really go from a 3 box to a one box system. If the computers aren't talking to each other it could cause low power. As any needed info would be missing. However I would imagine you would have check trans lights and check engine lights as well.

X2 on SVTs advice...I am sure his turbo has a waste gate...I have rebuilt several of these engines and all of them had a waste gate on the turbo. If that waste gate is stuckk it will cause power issues.

Swapping the boost sensor on the valve cover is a good one too...Thats a quick and cheap diag. to try.... I also wanted to add check the firewall plugs on the drivers side...I have had several trucks with symptoms like this one and the plugs pins were arching/grounding out causing intermittant problems.

Another thing I always did when I rebuilt a 466 was send the injectors out for rebuild...I can't believe the dealer didnt replace them or have them rebuilt...

The fuel hand primer screen is a definate must to check like svt said if thats clogged with crap you will be starved of fuel...

Did the dealer pressurize your CAC system with shop air and check for leaks???? If the CAC has a leak that will cause problems too....Just trying to help out....

 

+2 on smokekicksass added input.

Smoky...Im in CT as well. Where do you turn wrenches?

 

I work for Ryder in hartford right by IH...I used to work at nutmeg IH in hartford too LOL DUNGEON!!!!!:lol:

 

dt466e low boost

I would check your valve clearance settings to make sure they are in spec, which could cause a low boost condition.

 

Here is the latest update. The truck has been in the shop since Friday Nov 21st. Today is Monday Dec 1st. (allow for Thanksgiving Day)
The shop has replaced the turbo. They looked inside the intake of the old one and found the nut missing that holds the blades on the shaft. Shop calls me for authorization to replace the turbo on Tuesday Nov 25.
New turbo is installed at some point. The repairs are now on hold for a sensor to arrive.

I have lots of questions about this nut missing.
1. If the nut came off you would think there would have been a lot of blade damage. No damage can be seen and the blade turns freely.
2. Why not just put a new nut on and recheck for proper boost?

How is the sensor checked. (As suggested above just swap out the sensor with a new one to see if the problem is fixed.)
Why are we waiting on a new sensor? My guess is because they put a new turbo on and it still does not work! Then they decide to put a sensor on????

Thanks so much for everyones input and ideas.
(This is like hiring a home repair contractor, you better know how to do the work yourself just so you can oversee that it is being done right the first time.)

 

If the nut was missing replace the turbo. It must have not been torqued right but you figure it would take the compressor wheel out. Or maybe it was missing to begin with and they didn't see it when it was installed. I wouldn't want the piece of mind of just re-installing the nut and running it.

To check the sensor they would need to use a laptop or prolink and actually see what the sensor was reading and compare that with a mechanical gauge if they really wanted to get technical. Sounds like your making some headway.


Smoky- I work down at Atlantic Detroit. I'm on the road. I think I picked up one of our laptops from ryder after someone left it in a truck lol.

 

If the nut was missing replace the turbo. It must have not been torqued right but you figure it would take the compressor wheel out. Or maybe it was missing to begin with and they didn't see it when it was installed. I wouldn't want the piece of mind of just re-installing the nut and running it.

To check the sensor they would need to use a laptop or prolink and actually see what the sensor was reading and compare that with a mechanical gauge if they really wanted to get technical. Sounds like your making some headway.


Smoky- I work down at Atlantic Detroit. I'm on the road. I think I picked up one of our laptops from ryder after someone left it in a truck lol.

LOL Figures...dosen't suprise me.....I work 3rd at ryder....the pm kids on 2nd probably did it lol....

X2 with SVT s advise....sounds like someone is shotgunning parts....I dont believe them about that nut...If it was the one on the front or rear impeller that turbo would have S*!^ tha bed.....I think the dealer is guessing.....Obivisoly the new turbo didn't help at all with the power issue or you would have got a call and been getting your truck trust me they dont want it in their yard, or in the shop.....

Have they run the Diagnostics on the laptop yet,or did they just start replacing parts...did they check and make sure electronically everything is sound before condeming to a mechanical failure? Sounds like a crappy way to troubleshoot if you ask me...Just replacing parts and not isolating the problem to a particular part of the system....and it is on your dime.... I hope they figure it out for ya......with out it costing as much as a new truck....Keep us posted....

 

LOL Figures...dosen't suprise me.....I work 3rd at ryder....the pm kids on 2nd probably did it lol....

No WE left a laptop in YOUR truck lol. 2 months later someone found it up at your place.

EDGEMAN seriously if your going to be in CT...I don't have International software on my company laptop but we have one at the shop that does. I can plug into it and scope it out. 21 lbs of boost is about right for that engine. I don't know what the stall test spec is. Have them check that screen before the filter just tell them you don't recall if its ever been checked. And yes that is the nut!

 

No WE left a laptop in YOUR truck lol. 2 months later someone found it up at your place.



OH ***!!!!! I didn't know that ...LOL I bet someone got their azz chewed there....LOL...Do you work there in Middletown? I applied there 2 years ago...they kept advertising on career builder then...i never heard back from them....I wanted to work in the tranny shop if they were hiring for that back then I dont know...I do road calls too...Fun this time of year huh???? Lots of no starts..gelled up filters...the same old same old...Although the fuel filter thing hasn't been bad yet so far...I work on TKs and Carriers too...I hate reefers....They sent me to that TK school in Minneapolis MN for 2 weeks this past may...It was fun but That school is hard...I got that lisence you have to have to evac and charge reefers a bunch of BS if you ask me...Anyways I am sure we will cross paths someday...LOL take it easy don't work to hard.....:nono::thup:

 

Ah ha! So the nut is there and the turbo was probably good except maybe a problem with the wastegate. Or the additional boost is a result of the new sensor. I'll have to say this is pissing me off and it is amazing a professional shop can't get it right.
They are checking the fuel filters today and whatever else they can think of. I suggest they get on the phone with the International engineers and stay on the phone until they get someone that actually fix this.
Where in CT?

 

How many shops has this been to for this problem?

 

I mean that seems to look like the nut to me. I'm right in the middle of the state. So whats the concensus now it just won't stall test to spec? You went from 3 to 21 lbs and its still not fixed?

 

WRENCH-FLIPPER: For the lack of power under a load the truck has been only to my home town International shop. It has been in and out for the past two years as I had time to leave the truck for a few days and get other work done as well.
I took the truck to a different shop to get the Allison transmission periodic servicing and told them about them problem. They are the ones that found the 3lbs boost problem.

DIESELsvt: I just came back from my shop where I talked with the foreman about the nut. We could not get the old wastegate to budge even with a hammer.

I think it is the stall test specs that are not up to par at this time. I'm picking up the truck today to get ready for my trip North and will be able to feel the power difference for myself.

 

Sounds like they are on the right track. It can be tough finding a problem created by another shop. Please keep us posted.

 

Thats a real good point speaking from personel experience with that crap....:thup:

 

If, the waste gate didn't budge with a hammer on the old turbo then I would say that was one of the problems...They need to start eliminating systems out of the equasion....We know turbo is good now...How about the CAC, fuel filters, injectors, did they do a cylinder cut out test? thats a common test to do to check for faulty injectors... did they try the injector harness yet??? that part is only like 30.00$ BUT YOU CAN Troubleshoot and findout if the harness is bad. We have all of IH's programs at my work on the lap-top but I would get fired if I got caught using it on your truck...sorry...I had a truck the other night with a bad #5 injector...the injector harness was bad......Keep us posted good luck I hope they find out what is going on...:thumbsup:BTW I live in the middle of the state too...10 mins from Hartford....

 

I agree that waistegate could be the better root of your problems. Let us know when YOU drive it for yourself. It may be back to where she was before the overhaul.

Smokie. we've had that ad up for 8 years now haha. I'm surprised they didn't hire you. we're in a hiring freeze now but seems like we have tons of work. I don't do road calls. I just do mainly off highway and marine work. Sometimes I do truck work up at ryder in springfield and all the penke's in the Northeast. We have 1 guy that just travels to all the penkse and ryders around mass.

 

I agree that waistegate could be the better root of your problems. Let us know when YOU drive it for yourself. It may be back to where she was before the overhaul.

Smokie. we've had that ad up for 8 years now haha. I'm surprised they didn't hire you. we're in a hiring freeze now but seems like we have tons of work. I don't do road calls. I just do mainly off highway and marine work. Sometimes I do truck work up at ryder in springfield and all the penke's in the Northeast. We have 1 guy that just travels to all the penkse and ryders around mass.

Yeah it has been up there for a while now that I recall. They are still hiring at ryder but I think they are going to stop here shortly. They put a pay freeze on us...LOL Like ryder don't have money to give ya know...

 

double post oops

 

Well, I picked up the truck as I need to do a little work locally then head to CT. The shop was gracious and made some concessions on the bill. Driving locally I find the truck runs much better but still is falling short. I am finding I can not run over 75mph and there is still some noticeable lack of power but not nearly what it was. (I have had the truck at 98mph and no nerve to go higher in the past) Not that I drive those speeds but it is an indicator of the power in reserve if I need it for a high speed pass.

Shop did clean or replaced the fuel filters and I assume that includes the little screen as well. They also found a fuel line kinked and straighten it as well. I found the new sensor was not bolted inplace and the old one still installed on the firewall. It does not seem necessary to establish a good ground.

I think I am real close and will note all that goes on the trip North.
Thanks for everyone's input.

 

Well, I picked up the truck as I need to do a little work locally then head to CT. The shop was gracious and made some concessions on the bill. Driving locally I find the truck runs much better but still is falling short. I am finding I can not run over 75mph and there is still some noticeable lack of power but not nearly what it was. (I have had the truck at 98mph and no nerve to go higher in the past) Not that I drive those speeds but it is an indicator of the power in reserve if I need it for a high speed pass.

Shop did clean or replaced the fuel filters and I assume that includes the little screen as well. They also found a fuel line kinked and straighten it as well. I found the new sensor was not bolted inplace and the old one still installed on the firewall. It does not seem necessary to establish a good ground.

I think I am real close and will note all that goes on the trip North.
Thanks for everyone's input.

Sounds like the truck is good to go 75 is a good road speed....Thats good they knocked some money off the bill....

 

Sounds like all ended well. Sometimes its good to have relations with the local dealer. Not often someone would help out on a problem they did not create. Drive safe and watch the speed limit, its not 75 where I live!

 

I have been on the road three days now. I can feel better performance but still not the punch I was used too. The first day out for just 4 hours. I noticed the transmission temp gauge did not rise above 100 degrees. Second day was 16 hours long and the trans temp gauge was up to about 130 deg within 10 minutes and remained all day, and I notice a bit better power. Third day the temp gauge is back down on 100 degrees and does not rise. Passing power and power from a stop is a bit sluggish.
That is the only thing I can see that is erratic.

 

I dunno about the temp on the trans. Those temps are good I just can't see it having anything to do with the power problem. Also if a fuel line is kinked its usually replaced. Its tough to "unkink" a fuel line wether it be made of plastic air brake hose or braided line. Where you headed now? Back to SC? p>

 

I dont see a conection between the trans temp and power, unless somthing is slipping in the trans, and it does not soud like it. This is an older truck, it may never feel like it has the power of new. Have you concidered a dyno test?

 

I'm not sure what a dyno test is. I am leaving CT for DC sometime today. I agree the trans temp gauge should not really have anything to do with it but maybe an indication there is a wiring harness problem. I also think there is a problem in the fuse box area that is intermittent. As someone mention above the firewall connectors have a potential to be a problem.
Sometimes when I start the engine the computer will beep continuously, sometimes for 10 - 15 minutes. Have not had that problem the past 3 months or so.

 

A dyno test measures the power to the wheels and you can look at all the parameters under heavy load. We have one at our shop however we would charge 450+ or I could bring you there at night and risk the chance of getting fired lol. I was talking to a guy I work with. We Overhauled a DT466 in a bus just last week. When they were done the thing was so low on power it took it a good mile to get it up to speed. I actually moved it one day and you could run faster than it. They did all the regular diagnostics and ended up throwing a set of new injectors in it. Cured! It was towed down from Logan airport in Boston one of our regular customers and we were told to just O/H it. Maybe that's all it needed

 

the thing was so low on power it took it a good mile to get it up to speed. I actually moved it one day and you could run faster than it.

This is exactly like my problem. Even now with the new turbo etc the truck is dead slow from a start when it is cold. It takes off a bit better after a warm up but still noticeable from a stop. The higher end seems quite a bit better but still not up to par.
Someone else suggested new injectors last year. I wish I had spend the $$ on them when I had the in-frame done.
We are "vacationing" in DC, leaving Sunday for Charleston, SC. Most the museums I wanted to see are closed.

 

Generaly new injectors will decrease power. old injectors have worn orifaces and allow more fuel. new injectors could decrease power 10-15 percent (but will run more effeicently). On a truck the age of yours with good take off and going 75 mph, it might be time to decide how much more money you want to spend on it. If money is no problem, you can always put in a bigger engine Have a safe trip and watch out for all the holiday travelers.

 

Generaly new injectors will decrease power. old injectors have worn orifaces and allow more fuel.

Some injectors have filters in them that get clogged over time. Sometimes the erroded tips adding more fuel cook pistons, rings and liners.

With that system in the DT466 It could have one that is starving the others for oil dumping too much out the exhaust hole. Everytime I've put a set of injectors in I've never heard anyone complain of power. I hear the opposite. It could just be me though .

I always recomend injectors at overhaul time. After all it wouldn't be a complete overhaul. Your spending money on new liners,rings and pistons taking a gamble with injectors being "good". Its like beating a dose of the clap and then going out and hanging out with strange women again.

Edgeman as a working man I can understand your decision on the injectors at that time you live and learn :thumbsup:.
If you ever do the injectors you may need a harness too they are common on that engine.